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25-09-2016, 10:38   #1
pulmark
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M450 and Powertap G3/GS hub support ?
The PT hubs can be equipped with Bluetooth Smart LE cap for communicating with BTLE head units.

Does someone have real experiences of using M450 with Powertap hubs ?

The Polar support site says it supports G3 hub. When DC rainmaker tested M450 after it was released in 2015, it said that Powertap is not compatible:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/06/p...-computer.html
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26-09-2016, 17:38   #2
Freekick123
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Originally Posted by pulmark View Post
The PT hubs can be equipped with Bluetooth Smart LE cap for communicating with BTLE head units.

Does someone have real experiences of using M450 with Powertap hubs ?

The Polar support site says it supports G3 hub. When DC rainmaker tested M450 after it was released in 2015, it said that Powertap is not compatible:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/06/p...-computer.html
I have the C1 chain ring and it is definitely compatible with my V800 and M450. The only thing it doesn't do is left/right balance. Powertap says it isn't implemented in Bluetooth.
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06-10-2016, 11:01   #3
pulmark
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Originally Posted by Freekick123 View Post
I have the C1 chain ring and it is definitely compatible with my V800 and M450. The only thing it doesn't do is left/right balance. Powertap says it isn't implemented in Bluetooth.
I just got PT G3 hub wheelset with dual BLE/ANT+ powercap. The powercap has latest firmware from July, 2016 (v28.037) and M450 firmware is 1.1.5 (May, 2016).

I paired G3 successfully with M450. I did test ride yesterday and wattage numbers were huge, over 1500W almost all time. Also power/cadence values didn't drop down when coasting. The speed numbers seems to be okay. When stopped the power, cadence zeroed.

I asked from fellow rider who uses G3 with V650 that there is a manual zeroing/calibration option when starting the training session. However M450 does not have any. Also V650 user says that she has the BLE powercap not the dual one. I checked the firmware updates from PT site and the latest for BLE only powercap is dated as 2014.

I suspect that the problem might be with missing zeroing/calibration. Trying to find ANT+ head unit to run further tests.

I sent email to Saris and Polar support of these issues also. The seller has also contacted Saris.
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Last edited by pulmark : 06-10-2016 at 11:07.
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07-10-2016, 14:53   #4
Freekick123
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Originally Posted by pulmark View Post
I paired G3 successfully with M450. I did test ride yesterday and wattage numbers were huge, over 1500W almost all time. Also power/cadence values didn't drop down when coasting. The speed numbers seems to be okay. When stopped the power, cadence zeroed.
Sorry to hear that. My C1 is spot on with power/cadence. I've checked the cadence and found it kind of jumped around so I use the Wahoo Blue cadence which is more stable. The power numbers are right on and agree with other methods I've used and after having it since last Christmas I trust the readings are accurate. I was curious why I wasn't getting left/right balance and velocity and I got my hands on a Joule+ computer (Saris' bike computer) that uses ANT+ and was able to get those readings. I was also able to do a side by side comparison using Bluetooth on the M450 and ANT+ on the Joule. Power readings were the same. I didn't research the G3, but I wonder if it's because the G3 can't get L/R readings and the M450 is doubling everything. Keep after the Saris/Polar support folks. They may take a while to respond, but eventually they get back to you. I ended up calling Saris for a quicker response.

Edit: I totally forgot about the Powertap App. Load that on your phone and pair the G3 hub to it instead of the M450. There are functions in there to do a zero set. That should give you correct readings on the App. Then try turning the App off and test the M450 again. At least you'll know if it's the G3 or the M450. I'm not 100% sure, but I THINK the zero set is stored in the G3 so if you use the Powertap App to zero it, it should still be zeroed on the M450. Every few weeks I fire up the Powertap app and do a zero set and check for firmware.
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Last edited by Freekick123 : 07-10-2016 at 15:04.
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08-10-2016, 08:59   #5
pulmark
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^^ The problem is solved. M450 also has the calibration option. It is in the quick-menu after entering into pre-training mode. Similar as altitude calibration. I didn't read the M450 manual carefully, but after searching information I found it.

Yesterday did a test ride with calibrated G3 hub, wattage numbers were as expected. The speed seems to be also accurate. Cadence values are a bit delayed in M450 display, but this might be because I was using 3 sec rolling average for power. 3 sec seems to be the default, the range for rolling avg is 1- 60 sec. The time over the power is calculated can also be set from quick-menu.

I suppose G3 calculates the cadence by using some algorithm for hub torque values. So when free-wheeling begins, there is a short delay until wattage and cadence values drops to zero.
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Last edited by pulmark : 08-10-2016 at 09:10.
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10-10-2016, 17:23   #6
Freekick123
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Originally Posted by pulmark View Post
^^ The problem is solved. M450 also has the calibration option. It is in the quick-menu after entering into pre-training mode. Similar as altitude calibration. I didn't read the M450 manual carefully, but after searching information I found it.
Huh! I've been all through those menus and never saw that. I'll have to look next ride.
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13-10-2016, 11:33   #7
pulmark
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Originally Posted by Freekick123 View Post
Huh! I've been all through those menus and never saw that. I'll have to look next ride.
Just noticed that power sensor calibration option appears in the quick-menu shortly after it has found PowerTap G3 sensor after pressing red-button to enter into pre-training mode. Before this sensor has to be activated by spinning rear wheel.

Entering into the quick-menu is then done by pressing and holding left-button in M450.
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